FFS 025 - Breaking Bread with Paleo

hey everybody welcome to for foods sake the podcast bring you down to earth dialogues but the food on your plate and its many impacts on people in the planet my name is Matteo DeVos and without further ado let's talk about food hey everybody and welcome back to another episode of the food save podcast today we talked to Natalie Puka Cimber and kun natalie is the founder of the paleo collective and natalie is actually a childhood friend of mine we go way back we actually grew up in Thailand together it's been really nice over the last year getting back in touch with Natalie and very refreshing actually to realize that we're both really enthusiastic and passionate about a lot of similar food related issues now Natalie someone that's experimented with pretty much every diet in the book over the last decade or so and what's worked best for her so far from a health perspective and what she's ultimately stuck with is the Paleo diet so after graduating from UCLA in the States Natalie very much in response to her own health struggles started the Paleo collective now the Paleo collective is an umbrella for the paleo lifestyle they provide paleo friendly catering --zz they provide personal chef services they host pop-up dinners they also do corporate talks and host demos to educate people in the diet and on the paleo lifestyle and they also have this really great blog where they share Paleo recipes and health related tips that relate to the Paleo diet and they also share that Natalie shares that on a bi-weekly basis usually every Sunday and Wednesday on Instagram these paleo recipes and so in a nutshell the Paleo collective is really a platform that helps people take charge of their own health and really serves as a catalyst to help people make the lifestyle changes that they want so in this episode we're going to be discussing obviously what the Paleo diet is how it differs from different diets such as the vegetarian diet or the vegan diet but also how it's surprisingly got a lot in common with those diets we'll also be discussing the gut microbiome which is this vast fascinating ecosystem of organisms in your body in your gut consists of bacteria of yeasts of fungi viruses and now they all live together and how they together form this fascinating nervous system that we're only really just discovering and how that nervous system is actually really sensitive and reactive to the food that we eat and so here of course because we're talking about the Paleo diet we'll talk specifically about how gluten and other grains which are considered a sin a total no-go in the Paleo diet how those grains can cause inflammation and digestion issues and in the gut and so how the Paleo diet is one response to that all right so kay let's get straight to it here is Natalie from the paleo collective today we're gonna be talking about the Paleo diet with Natalie my friend Natalie who's on the line with me now hi Natalie hi I'm Mateo sorry he's only laughing because of being inappropriate by a video yeah we're lucky enough to have a good connection so we both have our video on for now we'll see how that goes but um yeah Natalie you and I go way way way back we grew up together in Thailand back in the days when we were innocent and did not care at all about the environment who or what we ate those days those days are over we can never go back where you know ignorant says why did you go clean you can't go back yeah that's definitely true but you've you've decided to go for a paleo diet which is something that I think most people don't even know how to pronounce and it's a diet that I don't think a lot of people know exactly what it is either I mean vegetarianism is pretty self-explanatory so is veganism not so much in France but generally it is but when it comes to paleo I don't think a lot of people know exactly what it is so could you maybe tell us a little bit about what the Paleo diet is yes so a lot of people pronounce it poleo I have no idea why it's a European thing anybody European I meet says Pelayo paleo essentially is it's a it's a dye and I hate using that word diet again I'm gonna throw that cliche it's a lifestyle not a diet but it really is a way of living where your focus on a very nutrient-dense food diet so it essentially eliminates any foods that is at odds with your health so we're not trying to just eat food that is ok for you or not harmful we're trying to really optimize our ability to function on a day to day basis so you know we focus a lot on vegetables organic vegetables lean protein and you know this is an important thing when you're eating protein unlike you know vegetarian and veganism we're focusing on high quality protein such as wild caught fishes grass-fed red meat if you're gonna have chicken or turkey it should be organic poultry with no hormones and then the other food groups that we focus on include nuts and seeds we don't do dairy you know it's a bit of a gray zone some people will do raw grass-fed dairy if they can tolerate it but generally speaking dairy is a food group that we eliminate with the exception of pasture-raised eggs so again like the focus is on high quality foods we avoid gluten grains beans and legumes no soy and anything processed really so without overthinking it if you think about a day where you just want to be a little mindful about being healthy because you're about to go out whatever the reason is people typically are having a salad with like chicken breasts you know without even knowing it right there your dinner is paleo without needing to label it so I don't want to you know people to get so overly intimidated by the label because it's actually a wave eating that comes quite naturally to you right and and so paleo that's Paleolithic right so it's a diet that's supposed to it's like an ancestral diet like can you explain a little bit where the diet comes from yes so it was originally founded by a doctor called Loren Cordain and he wrote a phenomenal book if you guys want to read more about it called the Paleo diet but the whole basis is it stems from it's called the Paleolithic diet because the stems from the Paleolithic era where it's pretty much like caveman style how your ancestors aid now the minute you say this people are like oh well your ancestors didn't have like coffee they didn't have supplements and it's called the modern caveman diet for a reason it means you're taking the best out of how your ancestors ate before agriculture before industrialization before all these mechanisms that allowed food to be so highly available in fast you know so we're taking the best of that world and incorporating with things that we know in modern day that is good for us and combining the two basically okay and I think a lot of people can agree at least I mean I'm speaking here as a vegetarian and having just kind of recently finished my my 30-day vegan challenge we can talk about that too but the whole the the beef forgive my fun the beef between vegans and and and and and and diet people I still don't know what they call them I'm gonna call them Palio's even if it's not a thing for this episode we call them Palio's but no and I think a lot of vegans can agree you know cutting out dairy and cutting out all these processed foods but I think where a lot of people kind of you know where their jaw drops when it comes to the Paleo diet is is is the no grains and no legumes I mean what's the what's this you know the scientific basis here why why cut out everything from the induction you know from the Agricultural Revolution let me tell you that grains beans and legumes first of all let's start off with something that is a little less scientific so a lot of people there's that saying like you know beans make you fart and people joke around about it but that's your body telling you that I can't digest this thing you know and once it gets to a point where it's quite severe it's no longer funny where you're just going I'm just farting you're getting like intestinal cramps which is what I get when I eat beans legumes and grains that are hard to digest like people say quinoa is a superfood and it's amazing for you I eat quinoa and I look like I'm six months pregnant I get so bloated and I and I and trust me I am all for you being intuitive in terms of being in tune with your body and knowing what works for you so if you can really digest quinoa and you feel great go for it like I said I encourage using the Paleo guidelines as a blueprint and making educated decisions and choices as to what works for your body so the more scientific part what in terms of grains beans and legumes is that they contain these anti nutrients called phytates which if you're not familiar with what phytates does is it binds with a good minerals and vitamins in your body during digestion and it stops your body from fully absorbing it so let's say you're eating rice a grain with Brussels sprouts which is known to be high in iron you know the anti-nutrient phytates during digestion is from the rice will bind with the iron from the Brussels sprouts you're eating so you think you're eating all these nutrients but your body isn't actually fully absorbing all that iron you know and that can lead to like iron deficiency and I think that that's something I sometimes encourage vegans to be mindful of you know I love actually when people like look I'm vegan whatever because I think they're a step ahead of the rest of the world trying to take care of their health and you know doing something about it so Mike here I'm just giving you the information and you decide so be mindful of getting enough vitamins and nutrients and not eating a lot of the other ingredients that might bind with that and stop you from fully absorbing it so that's why we you know kind of avoid those food groups but having said that I will have white rice maybe twice a month and that's my quote-unquote like cheap meal if you want to call it which I don't really I don't do the whole like Oh Sunday's are my cheat meal whatever I try not to think that way I have white rice twice a month because you know I love Thai food that's you know where we grew up and that's nostalgic for me and people might be thinking like wait brown rice is healthier I can't digest that you know whole hull that comes with brown rice so even when you hear like the bulletproof diet which is you know going viral around the world right now they are very close to the paleo family and they kind of allow white rice but not brown rice so yeah I I can digress white rice but that's basically the reason why we stay away from those food groups okay but so you think it could be something that's you know personal that depends from person to person almost or or at least certain people will be able to digest you know whole grains better because I mean the let's the issue I have and and this is the reason why often in my podcast I stay away from the whole nutrition debate when it comes whether it's veganism or the Paleo diet or or anything else is that I have read or I have heard people cite studies from across the scientific board claiming that every diet from just a moderate you know a diet of moderation just a normal standard diet includes everything too completely you know raw vegan diet to a hundred percent Paleo diet I've seen you know arguments for every single one and so I have this tendency and I think this was maybe what puts a lot of people off when they one day when they hear these nutritional arguments you you can hear everything you can google what you want to to to hear basically and I think that's where at least nutrition as a science is quite from my experience quite unique in that in that you can really find scientific backing of almost any argument I mean do you think there's new absolute you you definitely and but this isn't even just applied a nutrition let's just life period you will justify anything you want to justify if you want to right whether it's a bad habit the way you operate a personality trait a reason for eating a certain way you will do whatever it is to justify that if you believe in it and I believe the same about nutrition and people do that and so that's why like I said even whatever it is I'm seeing right now take it with a grain of salt the best thing you can do not literally right for Palio's note no salt there no wait no we do do salt we just do pink Himalayan salt so we do like high quality salts no table salt but is to really be in tune with your body to listen to it and you know as as extreme as it may sounds if you're dealing with a lot of health issues you need to start doing food journaling and realizing identifying the culprit and and realize that how you feel right now is not how you should feel on a day-to-day basis and I think that's what the paleo community focuses on is wanting you to really thrive now having said that I've done like every diet you can imagine since high school in high school I was known as a diet queen I think somebody actually wrote that in my graduation book I have done the like vegetarian pescetarian veganism 80/10/10 raw tool for Jenny Craig whatever it is you want to call it and I'm at a point where I realize paleo really works for me but like I said blueprint right just use it as a blueprint and don't get too stressed out or frustrated with all these you know articles and blogs and and books that you can read at the end of the day you know your body best right okay and just just one more I don't want to quite even though I'm usually reluctant not to talk about the nutrition but I know a lot of people are curious when it comes to the Paleo diet also when it comes to meat right that the like you said in the beginning meat is is definitely a part of the diet it doesn't have to always be the dominant part of the diet but you also mentioned it should be you know grass fed game so so talk a little bit about the quality of meat and why that matters and and how the Paleo diet looks at me totally so I just totally sounds so American so with protein so are you want to focus on getting a lot of good high quality fats as well right so from things like avocado and almonds and whatnot but the basis of the pyramid that I go off of should always be leafy greens and vegetables and I think that's important helping you digest protein and red meats now when you're eating protein when I think this is a misconception with the Paleo diet people think that it's this protein heavy diet where you're just eating like bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon just because meat is allowed but the quality of it makes all that much of a difference and so when you're eating say like red meat and by the way I have this article on our website paleo collective calm that goes over five reasons why you should be eating grass-fed meat versus grain-fed meat and it's a super easy read so when people talk about getting their omega-3 from eating red meat that is true but only if you're eating grass-fed because when you're eating grain-fed the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 is completely thrown off and just a little you know basic good fatty review you want omega-3 and omega-6 in your body they're both important in terms of meta Bligh's and different things in your body however too much the ratio you want is you want more omega-3 than omega-6 too much of omega-6 and it causes a lot of inflammation and omega-3s are great in reducing inflammation so a lot of people with inflammatory diseases autoimmune diseases like arthritis will take omega-3 supplements right so when you're eating grain-fed meat that ratio is completely thrown off it's a lot higher in omega-6 and the omega-3 content is virtually non-existent so you want to be eating grass fed and on top of that just you know what comes with being grass-fed and organic is there's a standard for you know the hormones and the chemicals that are you're allowed to use you want to avoid there's a lot of mold and cattle food that's the other thing you want to eliminate you know whatever the animal eats you eat essentially so I get like I pay a lot for my meat but that's because you know that's what I want to invest in and we get our meat from you know this farm in Australia is one of the vendors you can also get it from your local butcher but we focus on like pasture-raised grass-fed grasp it grass-fed grass-finished sorry and that extra dollar you're paying or pound or whatever it is living in is absolutely worth it on your health anyway and saving the long-term bill of medical expenses so yeah but if you do want to go over you know more of the scientific details I don't want to bore you guys on the podcast just go on my website and there's a very easy read there okay yeah I think I can I mean you know as someone I came to vegetarianism and veganism very much from an environmental perspective and and I mean at least from that perspective I think initially I had a lot of issue with the idea of a paleo diet because of the focus on meat of course and meat generally having a much higher environmental impact having said that I'm as far as I understand it the Paleo diet is much more in support of the kind of local farmer the small-scale grass-fed non industrial meat that isn't necessarily correlated with the environmental problems that we see today is that a fair assumption to make er absolutely and the thing is and that's why I definitely so people always asked like how do you know what what are the best places to get your produce or meat or whatever right like farmers market are such a great place to start and I think the best way to do that is get to know the farmers get to know your vendors they're there on you know your Sunday farmers market not all them are certified organic because smaller farms can't afford that so you talk to them you build a relationship and there's nothing more comforting than knowing who's growing you know your produce how they do it and knowing that you're supporting a small farm that is unable to afford the certified organic label but you know you purchasing that your I just think that's really the best way to go about it I sometimes will get it from a local butcher but I also sometimes like I said I get it overseas from Australia and guess that is not local but I'm also like I spent months getting to know them and their practice and the quality of their meat and doing all these tastings and I don't care that it's in Australia because if ordering on a large scale for catering for my clients you know I want to be like look this is a great company that can become so big and start taking all the shortcuts like all the big companies instead I want to support that their practice is you know ethical and I just think you just ask yourself you know people's intentions what are your intentions and if they align support that it's not easy no that makes that makes a lot of sense I mean for people that have been you know my friends around me in Paris they very much know that you know I went vegetarian for a number of reasons but the main one was strictly environmental and when they kind of pushed me on it and asked me if I could ever you know eat meat again I'm someone that from a you know from an ethical perspective fundamentally I I don't have an issue with eating meat right when it comes down to it I see a world in which I see scenarios in which and it's happened over the period of the two years that I've been vegetarian very seldomly that I've eaten meat from a source and from a system that I agree with from an ethical environmental standpoint it's very rare at the moment and that's very much well by default I've become a vegetarian slash you know increasingly vegan because I don't agree with the meat that I'm finding around me in Paris and I know that if I'm eating meat at a random restaurant that it's not gonna be sourced from something I can agree with but in principle the idea of eating meat doesn't put me off and I can very much respect vegans and vegetarians that will not from the ethical perspective and that's something yes I struggle with as well that philosophical debate but I used to be vegan right I used to be vegan for like three years and I had to transition to paleo and you know I definitely like at the beginning had a hard time you know adjusting psychologically and it's why I like I don't you know I I'm very much like you in that I don't want to focus too much on like this versus this diet and creating that separation I just want to don't want to put all that like as early as it sounds like bad vibes you know people are doing their best with what they know and I think if you are an extremist and you want to make sure everything you're doing is not just the ethical good for the environment then you're gonna have to also take on the burden financial burden of making that happen yeah you know and paying more for those things you can't win it all while also being like I'm gonna be cheap about my groceries you know and I think that's the the battle people want it all but they're not willing to pay for it and they're not willing to grow their own stuff they're not willing to put the effort I mean we have two hydroponics Tower on our patio where we grow a lot of our like leafy greens and herbs and things like that and people like well it wasn't that expensive and I'm like yes that was expensive but I also haven't bought a person three years right so so you know you sacrifice you pick your battles no that's definitely true and and I completely agree with your point on I'm not trying to you know vilify one diet or trying to pick sides or trying to hit it as vegans versus you know Palio's as I say now yeah especially because I mean when you're comparing a standard Western diet compared to a paleo diet or a you know a whole foods vegan diet you're really comparing apples and oranges like it's not at all the same ones very much you know focused on processed foods and and rely on on on sugars and refined sugars and the other two are very much focused on kind of more locally sourced you know natural products that are better for your health and and and and this is something that I find really interesting as well about paleo is that I think for a lot of people that are not comfortable with the idea of giving up meat completely paleo is a very okay maybe not a comfortable transition because you do have the fact of if cutting out grains which I think could become complicated for people but at least it offers a kind of different pathway towards eating more healthily and eating more responsibly and and I think it also has a there's a different level of respect for the animals and for the farmers that you're you're sourcing from and I know a lot of vegans will cry foul that I'm talking about respect for animals when you're killing them I know oh sherry yeah but but at the same time its worlds apart from the industrial animal husbandry system world worlds apart I mean I know I sound very extreme when I say this but um like fortunately in LA I do know a lot of people who you know have moved away from like seelye life West Hollywood and they live like in Malibu or more remote areas where they're able to have like a little farm and have their own chickens eat their own eggs and I think that's quite extreme but it's like I said if you're if you want to be that extreme that's a choice you make it's also funny cuz we were like we didn't want this podcast to be so much about vegan versus paleo but it sort of has become it happens but just on this quickly on this point before I forget so you you mentioned and I agree to an extent at least that you know you you have to put more more money not necessarily more money but definitely more effort into your diet if you want it to be consistent with the values that you hold whether those are environmental or ethical but do you think for I don't know for your your average individual or for your individual that isn't fortunate enough to live in the places that we live in or lead the lives that we lead do you think a paleo diet is feasible do you think there's room for people to still eat close to what is the Paleo diet on a budget you can get produce and like I said if you're not gonna go 100% organic then educate yourself about what the way things grow and what is safer to eat organic and what and what is safer to eat non-organic like the way onions grow like 99% of them even the non-organic ones have no virtually no traces of pesticides so like picking your battle right and realizing anything you eat the skin of you're gonna go organic but I think the excuse of being like look I'm on a I'm on a budget where I live in an environment where I can't do this I can't do that there is always a way to figure it out the same it's the same analogies with people who want to lose weight right people make excuses that they can't lose weight because they can't join some fancy gym and they can't hire a personal trainer go running the streets are for free you know like it's it's that same kind of analogy and I think you might not be able to go so far extreme and be like I'm gonna have grass-fed filet mignon every night no get a cheaper cut you know just get like boneless legless lambs do cuts and that's a lot cheaper I mean right now the grocery store you're looking at like 30 American dollars per pound for like a rack of grass-fed lamb and it's only like $9 per pound for boneless legless lamb shoulder or lamb leg you know and I'm still getting grass-fed protein from that source so it's all about what you want to learn what you want to research and how you want to make the adjustments and I think if it's important enough for you you'll figure out a way to do it now I understand not every city have things like snacks easily as available so you make your own snacks you also don't want to pay nine or ten dollars for a little truffle bar you know make yourself you're gonna learn to cook and you're gonna do most of the cooking because you have full control over your ingredients mmm yeah that makes a lot of sense should we talk a little bit about we said we'd talk about this I don't know much about this but about the gut microbiome yeah and how yeah kind of it's a new obviously not a new approach but it's it seems to be a new field that's getting a lot of attention currently and I often see a lot of the articles linked to paleo so maybe I don't know explain a little bit what the gut microbiome is and how it relates to paleo and how it relates to diets in general maybe because I think that's definitely something that's interesting yes and it's also very important I could talk about gut health forever so I'm gonna try to like keep it short your gut like your might your your gut health is I mean it's becoming this topic where I get requested quite often when it comes to corporate talks that they want me to focus on that and that's because logically majority of your health stems from your gut health if you think about it you're eating multiple times a day three to five six times a day right and so how your digestive system is how your gut health is affects everything from your skin to your immunity and when you're eating foods that causes either a bacteria imbalance so you have good and bad bacteria in your gut right and you want to encourage that healthy balance when you're eating right I mean yes like so many and when you're eating things like we're flying sugars which isn't allowed on the Paleo diet you know we opt for more like raw organic honey but or like natural sugars but when you're eating refined sugars you're feeding the bad bacteria in your gut as a result these this gut is like I'm sorry not your gut but bad bacteria is multiplying and growing and there's and the next thing you know is there's a yeast infection you know or you have a bacterial overgrowth and it leads to a whole host of problems and that's just like one of the many things that could happen when you don't eat well the other thing also is when you eat foods like gluten which is like the biggest no-no in you know the paleo community it essentially causes the cells in the lining of your wall to die prematurely and what happens is when you know the strength of the lining of the wall isn't as strong bacteria can go in and out between your gut to your bloodstream a lot easier so you can only imagine the list of problems that comes with that you have toxins entering your bloodstream lot easier your immunity sucks you're gonna get sick a lot more often you have skin issues like eczema psoriasis and that's because you need a focus again on getting your gut health back to normal so like leaky gut syndrome or something is yeah right leaky gut is and that's what that exactly is what leaky gut is what I just explained you know because people like is there like literally a hole and I'm like no it's just your gut is leaky things are passing in and out very easily so the Paleo diet with it focusing on supplements like bone broth it's you're you're filling your gut with things like collagen and glutathione to essentially seal off your gut so that you create the strong barrier and I think that that is such a common topic that the paler community talks about because they understand the importance of it and I don't hear that so much amongst you know other diets or I think it's something that regardless of whatever dye you're on it's something you should definitely pay attention to so often when people have a leaky gut issue which leads to things like irritable bowel syndrome like IBS Crohn's colitis so a lot of my private clients have one of the three it's a very common disease especially in America because we're like the land of processed foods so right now like you know IDs I think affects over like 3 million people in America and people are now learning to take synthetic pills with each bite and each meal that they eat in order to be able to digest all those horrible ingredients and that's you know part of what happened with me too is that I was told by doctors like alright you can still eat dairy and gluten and all this processed foods you just need not take these pills to help digest it and alleviate some of the pains and I was like this makes no sense like I'm not gonna adjust my flute at all and I just kind of took matters at hand and I'm very stubborn about taking any you know synthetic pills to get me to take an Advil is like World War 3 in my house so I I'm very conscious about eating any foods that irritates your gut and causes inflammation so I definitely you know and there's a lot of side symptoms like fatigue depression those are things that you want to be mindful of and ask yourself how strong you got health is and you know the best way to start adding good supplements for a gut health include things like probiotics you know everyone's hearing about probiotics but again you want to research what is gonna get delivered to your gut without dying along the way and it's paying for better probiotics and then and you can even get that through eating fermented foods like sauerkraut yeah I think it's mental foods yeah yeah and it's in this kind of category that's where people bend a little bit with dairy like if you can tolerate and you don't have a lock dose problem people will eat like fermented yogurt and that kind of stuff but I can't do lactose so even with things like butter I'll do clarified butter which is called ghee and it's basically where the case that and the lactose has been removed so I use that a lot for cooking and it's like good and you know good quality fats but yeah you wanna and also like I said bone broth collagen and glutathione those things will really help your gut health and I think that was my biggest transition not against our bring it back to be when I was vegan but I had a lot of gut issues and while I ate a lot of greens and vegetables on a vegan diet that helped alleviate some of this stuff I think what really changed me was incorporating bone broth into my diet okay so but do you think so I mean the Paleo diet here focuses a lot on you know grains being part of the problem that damages your gut but do you think would it be fair to say because a lot of people I think will cry foul over this that you know if you if you're comparing age ancient heritage grains to you know the the refined grains you know the processed grains that we have today they're their own comparable right if you're looking at kind of truly you completely right and so so is there room there you can't really I mean there's there's there's always room people encourage like sprouting things right even like nuts people like nuts are hard to digest I make my mouth my own almond milk and I will soak my nuts for eight hours you know and I feel like it's okay for me to say stuff my nuts cuz I'm a female little things you can do to help improve like digestion but in terms of like gluten being you know my number one enemy for causing inflammation in the body and it's why like it's a big no-no for people who are also like celiac or who have Crohn's or colitis there's not much and other diets that says you can't have gluten you know and I feel like in the Paleo diet we strictly say no gluten no refined sugars at all you know so sugars has nothing to do with even like ethics and it's simply to do is just pure health so I often ask if people ask me what is the first thing they you know should cut out I usually say refined sugars or gluten and then work your way from there but I'm more like all-or-nothing you're either going I go paleo or not I can't do that like slowly one thing at a time but everyone's different yeah yeah I think I think one thing from me especially when it comes to just bringing it back to the the gut that I find so fascinating is that you know from what I understand I'm actually reading a book right now called gut I think it's a good book I'd recommend it but one of the things that I find so fascinating is how personal it is right and how almost every meal can kind of adjust or at least over time adjust your microbiome adjust the kind of composition of your own gut yes like your mood swings it even has its own nervous system the gut like it really is yeah as a second brain almost it absolutely is I mean they that controls a lot of stuff and I mean what is it that you said just now that really oh I was gonna say it's not something that I especially with gluten is something that you can cheat on I don't I don't recommend gluten being one of those things where you're like I'm gonna go gluten free except for Sunday's just because when I first started being paleo I still wasn't aware of all the substitutions that I could do to like kind of satisfy that craving or pasta whatever you know so like every now and then like once a month I would maybe have a bite of bread or something like that and I thought I was like still I'm more healthier than 99% of the world you know a majority at the time paleo that little like cheat day creates and created inflammation in my gut and over the long term the effects just got worse and worse and worse and it's funny because in the kind of paleo and bulletproof community they literally equate to heroin they say you can't urine you can't like heroin you can't be like oh yeah I'm I I sometimes you know shoot heroin sometimes I don't you're either a heroin addict or you're not and they and they and they equate that not like you know and I know there's been a lot of articles we sneeze especially saying like all these you know people comparing gluten to heroin is so extreme but it's because it's really addictive when you think and it's the same with sugar there's a reason why there's really insane sugar detox detox programs because these foods are very addictive and they contain a lot of seemed like opioid contents that are found in opium and the more of it you have the more you crave and it's why people who are cutting out these things sometimes get headaches it's it's a serious thing but but I see the same I've seen the same argument used against well by in the vegan community against cheese against me that it's just an addiction that it's an addiction we have to get over so for me I can't help but see some of these things skeptically just because everything seems to be an addiction and then at the end of the day it kind of is because it's food so I guess yeah Armel that we're addicted I mean I get where you're coming from and and I wouldn't be advocating people to be eating you know Wonder Bread you know terrible you know process bread but at the same time I guess I'm I'm more of a moderate in these things and that I see and I very much respect that it differs from person to person but yeah good sourdough bread I can't imagine that that every once in a while can be compared to heroin do you know what I mean right and I and I and that's completely a fair argument I think when it comes to you know deciding what is addictive psychologically versus physically you just got a look at the science of what each ingredient contains and what what internal brain stimulators that they might activate that causes that addiction and like you said everybody is different but also a lot of addiction in terms of food is your association to it food is such a nostalgic thing right right like I said I love Thai food because it reminds me of home and but so a lot of it is psychological as well I'm not saying it's all psychological but I definitely think the best one of the best things you can do is changing your relationship to food which it's taken me over four years to view food so differently than the way I used to view it I think this is especially for a lot of women as well you know who view any type of food as enemies good fats is the same as bad fats and I almost never feel guilty about any food I eat because I've taken the time to figure out the right substitutions so I don't feel guilty I make my own ice cream I know that my chocolate ice cream is made from raw cacao powder and I'm getting the antioxidants from that cacao you know I know that if I want to make something cheesy it is cashew base with grass-fed so all these little shortcuts I make I haven't deprived myself of anything I'm definitely not a chicken breast sweet potato and broccoli kind of person like on the weekends I indulge I make cupcakes I make cookies whatever it is and so it's changing that relationship and realizing that when I look at food and whatever meal I'm eating I also view it as a whole list of ingredients of what's gonna nurture my body and what's gonna be good for me and that I don't have to calorie count or over think about portions you know people often ask how many calories is in this and I'm like I have no idea and that is not how I want to live my life so overly calculated when you're eating wholesome foods you don't need to worry about that stuff you're gonna get full off of good foods and you're not you know and my friend made fun of me the other day he was like of course you're gonna say calories don't matter but I think you know it's it's not because I'm genetically blessed because I'm not like I just because I'm Asian I think people assume that but I do think be mindful of what you're putting into your body but don't stress about it because that stress of calorie counting is only gonna mean you're gonna feel guilty later and that guilt is just gonna make you want a bit ya know I really respect that I think that's so important you know when you said as well that you've you've been on this journey for for over four years kind of discovering what works best for you and that's kind of a personal journey that I'm on - it's kind of trying these different diets and trying to see what works best for me ethically environmentally from a health perspective and you yeah like like we've said you know throughout this episode you I think you start to realize that a lot of these diets are in one way or another closer to another than they are apart and and kind of going for the same goal of cutting out definitely processed foods and then kind of seeing what works for you and yes and and and keep doing the research and keep questioning your assumptions like like I will you know with the vegan diet that I tried and like I do with the vegetarian diet that I'm on you know nothing's set in stone like I'm not you know I'd never say I'm a vegetarian or vegan for life I'm willing to let the evidence and and the way my body reacts you know convinced me otherwise yes and I think you know as much as I know we've we'd like said the word vegan way too many times in this episode as much as we've talked about some of the differences like I said whenever even in the paleo community whenever we're talking about competitors business-wise from one chef to another from one product to another I think sometimes people lose sight that we're all essentially one movement whether you call it vegan whether you call paleo whether you call bulletproof whatever ketogenic whatever it is we're still one big movement against you know the majority of the world that is selling all the processed foods that's our real enemy you know none of these diets are condoning process unhealthy foods and so I do think that's if you have a platform and you're listening to this where you have the ability to encourage people to purchase things or to use a certain service like realize your competitors aren't really your competitors in the community like you guys should support each other and you know I don't have that scarcity mentality and so I think I encourage everybody to help each other and yeah I love it I couldn't agree more so there you have it guys an introduction to the Paleo diet or should I say the paleo lifestyle if you want to learn more of course you can head to the paleo collective websites you can follow them on Instagram to get their bi-weekly recipes I've provided all that information in the show notes below oh and also before I forget if you're interested in learning more about the gut that gut book I quickly reference to in the podcast is called gut the inside story of our body's most underrated organ it's a book by Julia Enders she manages to cover the topic with a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of humor and if you're interested in the gut I highly recommend you check that out as well alright guys that is that for this time thanks for tuning in as always if you want to support the podcast you know how on iTunes you can rate review and subscribe you can also let friends and family know about the podcast and recommend any of the episodes you can stream all of the episodes from the website directly that's at for food sake don me and you can follow what we're up to on all of these social media platforms that's Instagram Facebook and Twitter the social media handles for all of those platforms are for food sake me thanks again I'll see you next time you .

Video Description:

This week, we talk with Natalie Pukasemvarangkoon about the Paleo diet.

Natalie has experimented with pretty much every diet in the book. She’s been a carnivore, a pescatarian, a vegetarian, and a vegan for a solid 3 years. She’s tried the 80/10/10 diet, raw till four, the HCLF diet, and yes, the Paleo diet.

Natalie is the founder of the Paleo Collective - an umbrella for the Paleo lifestyle: providing Paleo-friendly caterings, personal chef services, they host pop-up dinners and provide corporate talks and demos to educate people on the diet and lifestyle. They also run a blog with recipes and health tips related to the Paleo diet.

In this episode, we discuss what the Paleo diet is, and why its Natalie’s diet of choice. We explore:

• How to pronounce Paleo – the little things matter!
• How to eat Paleo: why eating grains and beans are a big no-no, why gluten is sin, and how choosing quality meat is essential
• What the gut microbiome is, how gluten can affect the gut, and how it influences our health and mood
• The common cause: why the rift between vegans and paleo obscures important values these diets or lifestyles have in common