hello welcome to the nerd cave man calm we're vivica Monagas certified technician in the whole foods nutrition presents nutrition in the kitchen good morning everybody welcome to nutrition in the kitchen and today locum in the kitchen and I'm here with a very special guest today I'm super excited to bring you the very jaime cepero so from quito paleo calm is like i'm so excited because he is the key to paleo daddy would you call yourself Jamey keaten le okay but jamie is a personal trainer and an author and is also one of the main people out there in the big kito world who understands the importance of quito paleo and you know like his website says it really promotes the concept of quito paleo so we're very much aligned on that you know diet basis of quito paleo and i know we have a lot of really cool stuff to talk about so welcome welcome Jamie and so happy to have you yeah thanks very much for having me I'm very excited about this cool so why do we start I'm talking about you a little bit and how did you get to catch a paleo what's your history like you're you know kind of helped history how did you get here yeah so um it's an interesting story um you know as we just said we we've merged these two ideologies together of the Paleo world in the head with a ketogenic world and where I started was almost a decade ago now um it was around the time my daughter was born I started taking a close look at my mortality at the time I was a 250 pound power lifter and I was very well married to the idea of eat big lift be I was convinced you had to eat anything everything and get as big as possible to to be strong and during a routine physical with my doctor he looked at me and said no juniors out there's a direct correlation between belly fat heart disease and it really threw me off I was really confused as this guy knew my history we've been friends a long time and he knew I work out he wanted to drive through powerlifter have been my whole career and I was submitted that was enough exercise and that was not to maintain longevity and health and I almost think so I started taking a closer look at that not so much in the interest of Jane but more in the interests of my kids right sometimes we need that external motivation and mine was my kids and then I brought it up a couple times to some friends that you know what maybe I'll make a little effort and lean out a little bit ah and I was met with lures laughter really and um and that made me step back and think too that that maybe this was a little different than I thought it was though I started reading all the traditional stuff coming from a gym environment I went to your normal um you know muscle in fiction magazines and flex magazines and all that kind of stuff and thought i was on on the right path with a i guess you would call a high-carb low-fat style being with a calorie deprivation and I was miserable for the most part Batman yeah and then and then with in most bodybuilders are if you talk to him that they're doing a contest or a pretty contest diet they they you'll see on there pretty miserable because they're hovering in between that world and talking with a friend one day he had said that sounds like you want to not only lose fat or body mass it sounds like you're really looking for optimal health and I said well what do you mean what are you talking about isn't just by nature being lean being healthier and he said no he said it sounds like that you really looking for optimal health and if you were doing that you'd be eating grass fed beef organic vegetables swallow blond like tell me more and he handed me a book called me and earthen which was one of the first books written by rayo that kind of in that world of natural human diets is what it really comes down to so I read this book and I was like well none of this makes sense none of this is the way the TV tells me he right or mainstream marketing and but I have are just back up i have a bachelor of science and biology and medical technology from the University of Michigan that part was kind of diving so I started reading more and read more and convincing myself at least to give it a try myredbook like mark systems um you know pay primal blueprint Rob Wolf's paleo solution and I think the real tipping point was when I read um Mike and married a needs protein powerlite plan because he back well they back everything up ten weeks on tuesday with science right because if you've ever met my keys he's just that guy he's a scientist scientist which i like to say and nice guy too lightly he's great i got to meet him at bay all this last year I'm him a married am just great couple um so I read this book and he had so much sign said that I was like you know what I'm gonna give this a try I'm gonna start leaning into this this lifestyle i started with breakfast okay no remember this 250 pawn shop baggy everything anything in sight so knowing that this was going to be a lifestyle change for Jamie can't believe into it because my personality is such that if I jump in feet-first i'll probably fall out head mmm so I leaned into it was starting with breakfast so I have eggs bacon and whole fruit and I didn't start let's say we're like a level I'm at now I would just normal grocery store food so back refund meets factory found vegetables factory you know this oh and started know some difference and then being by my day job I do Outside Sales I'm on the road all day now I incorporated breakfast dinner because I was at home it was easier to do and I said in Austin more of a difference and started finding my way of working a little more a little more a little more like I said leaning into it so I was doing some exercising so I'm doing some gentle cardio treadmill stop right like everybody does sorry let me interrupt you for one second yeah really good stuff and I just want to mention the fact that i love the gradual approach you know i love the fact that you didn't just jump in salon and wat to make it perfect but you just went little steps and yeah you leaned into it you just tried it out a little bit at the time that's so important because i think for people that are starting this lifestyle and they just want to be perfect right away and they're really hard on themselves you know it's such a great example to see where you are right now and that you started with little tiny changes one no change at the time yeah exactly and and i think you're right i think that is very important we'll talk about that but more later about where i'm even at today and don't feel that there's perfection um so I leaned into it and I think that is very important and like vivica said don't let perfection keep you from making this lifestyle change because that's exactly what it is it's a lifestyle change its not a six-week makeover it's not a 12-week 90-day whatever you want to call it's not a small package this is when you looked at an optimal health or you're trying to feel your body you're making lifestyle changes and you gotta do what works for you okay and that isn't listening that may be leaning into it now where Jamie's app and where you know vivica zat that may be a different level I would consider us a list at this point and we probably don't have perfect I mean we have still have imperfections and we'll talk about that because I don't want anyone to think I can't do it exactly like this I'm not now like I said I was very very successful with standard grocery store factory farm stuff which isn't perfect but a lot of people at save it your body knows better what to do with a bad piece of meat from a grocery store then it does that both the bread she's exactly is what it comes down to so going down this road um I didn't started noticing some things I had asthma since I was a little boy and I was starting to get some rheumatoid arthritis in my hand and the rheumatoid arthritis in my hand started going away I mean I would've bumped my hand in the morning they would feel like lightning going up my arm that started going away and then I was doing some some basic trendle work and home a sudden I noticed one day I wasn't having any trouble breathing my asthma was subsided and that's a major inflammatory thing and I literally in my basement and I live in Michigan to see you guys know so Michigan damp basin on my treadmill one day turned it up as fast as I could and couldn't give myself an asthma attack Wow and I was one of those guys that had my inhaler with me and my center console in my car was in my gym bag it was just a part of my life I was about 35 36 at the time so it's not like I miraculously outgrew it something directly correlated with what I had changed and it was you know my diet so at that point I was sold on paper go completely sold on paleo I started telling people about it you know we start putting yourself out there I'm reading everything in sight at that point and trying to get more and more information and along that path I stumbled across Stephen Finian Jeff bollocks book a low-carbohydrate performance and if there's any the one yeah the little one the short version why not they keep referring back to the big one beam up being a competitive power lifter being successful very successful with paleo now and um let me back up one more step I follow just so big power lifter Jamie for if there's any athletes listening okay so you have this problem with thinking that if I get smaller I'm gonna get weaker that doesn't necessarily happen when you remove a lot of these inflammatory foods or foods the cause of systemic inflammation in your body you you cause less damage when you train okay there's less oxidative stress going on so I'm not going to say you recover faster what I'm gonna say is that you don't cause as much damage when you train hard so that I got smaller I got stronger net was a hard pill for me to swallow right I didn't want to lose the mass because i was still it was it was hard but i had a bigger goal in mind and that was to be healthier and a great result was my blood panel turned around my asthma went away man ritis went away I got smaller I got stronger which is very very hard to wrap your head around because it just doesn't go hand in hand what it really comes down to us had better fuel for my body you know you see a lot of these things and I almost hate seeing them in social media now because I know better is these great athletes calmed and doughnuts Oh doughnuts yeah you have them as a treat and it's got to catch up with you and I'd like to see how good you could do on this side so just a little side note there it some athletes looking or or you know someone who's an athlete who says I couldn't go down that route refer them referring back to this pod this video and even me if you have to so um that being said I was rounded 40 now I'm leaving my early mid 30s and ramen 40 and I was looking again for performance advantage and that's when I found that book and it made a ton of sense to me um so I read both i read the low carbohydrate performance and I read the living one and I decided to try it me and my training partner and she's a lot younger um and and a female so we just decided to both try Aikido paleo approach to train for worlds in 2012 she um we both were in the paleo cam and but we couldn't give up on what we learned in the paleo camp so we were going to keep dairy out because of we knew about the protein mimicry and other problems you know mucus buildup and stuff and we didn't want to lose that performance so that's when we merged the two together we did a 12-week experiment leading up to um WPC world which is in the powerlifting world it's like our super bowl okay so for those of you not into that area and we did a 12-week approach to the sink and at 40 years old i-pr with personal record in two of the three lifts on a world stage which to me said everything I was completely hooked 40 years old it's not like I learned anything new about getting stronger in 12 weeks I just changed the diet it was a world stage and I've competed on a world stage maybe once before but those of you who compete know there's a lot of pressure with the world stage was able to PR on my squat and my bench press um and the only reason I didn't PR on the deadlift here's my back tightened up fashion but I would have smashed that too wow so so to show you at that point we were sold we were completely sold kido paleo you got all these foods that are nutrish nutritious and don't have any anti-nutrients and blocking any type of mineral absorption or give me any kind of protein mimicry then shifting your body into a state of nutritional ketosis which is even less oxidative stress and better vo2 max performances on and we experience it and and remember this is coming from a guy who was eat big lift big mentality everything and anything inside if we want to launch a breakfast together you didn't finish your lunch I was eating it for me for me to back up and beat this guy now is a huge huge paradigm shift yeah it's a huge shift any night I was all I was like a Pepsi and a fritter every day for breakfast that gives you an idea so that that's that's my story that's how I got there and and and living testament that it really really does well now I own my own gym and I work with a lot of people that are doing great on the same exact thing that's fantastic Jamie I have a question just up huge in my head that you know um kind of like a side note here but it's a personal interest question here I really want to know about this so since you started eating kita paleo now do you maintain a constant state of ketosis do you always see it ketogenic ratios or other times when you know there is all that talk out in the community about especially for athletes and lifters like you about carbon up yes no you know there are all these podcast interviews about you know how to do the cyclical ketogenic diet and you know all the guys involved in that and this is a little bit of you know a different audience and a different spin off for paleo kick open yo than I do because my audience is you know as mostly women and a little bit older but still I want to bring it into a wider context of like once you are key to adapted and you know being an athlete or not like what is your experience what do you feel like what have you learned on your own body and the body of your clients because i'm sure that for your clients you also have women clients you have younger older people man younger older men so what do you feel is like a good way once you are key to adapted to continue for long term because we're in this for the long term we're not just we can dirt ki jo pehli it's like this is our lifestyle so you know I know what it looks like for me but what does it look like for you in the long term do you stay in ketosis all the time do you do car Bob's how do you work this so that's a great question it is a great question it almost goes back to the UM the leaning into it mentality okay so so we did that the 12-week initial cycle okay and after that of course we went back to a normal paleo or glycolytic pathway style meeting is the world was in November it budded right up against the holidays we were just kind of like yay that worked so the next year we decided to do it for ten months to see if we really felt the difference or added advantage and the reason we came up with ten months was if we started you know on the new year's resolution bandwagon you know the first monday of the year of the monthly you know like a lot of people do that's a great starting point um because it gets the holidays behind you so you left for beginners less at to fail so we did a 10 month thing and my birthday is Halloween so we figured if we wrote it out to Halloween perfect then it would launch us into on holidays and I did that the first two years very successful and I noticed a huge difference around the six-month mark of being keto adapted and i and i would say in nutritional ketosis for the most part that whole 10 months I didn't do any cyclical ketogenic diet and I didn't do any target keep dying I keep looking okay I really didn't know about too much done now a reminder again I'm into the performance stuff I've you cross it and I do competitive powerlifting and I think that works really well for performance athletes is getting in and staying in what vivica was referring to with a cyclical ketogenic diet or a targeted ketogenic diet is cyclical is some guys who like once a week or every four days they'll lower the fat and do a hike our meal and that I think lends itself more to a look now bodybuilders are going for more of a look carbs will give your body or your muscle bellies more of a fuller look we're staying ketogenic may get you to add performance but handle looks in yulee your muscles don't get puppy looking and rebuilding is a specific look how do you know genic guys is they'll do a little bit of carb load before a workout to make sure that glycogen levels are high enough in their muscles and I can't say that any of those are right or wrong because those people have different goals okay I don't wait in with anything I hope you get out of the day if you have to do what works for you and with your best interest right total not so loosen it and there's a whole bunch of groups out especially in love how they have a great Facebook page Paquito games guys know really into that they're more into the bodybuilding stuff here for performance um I like to get in stay in and previously I'd go off from my birthday till January I tried to do that last year and I felt so bad or not bad in the respect that I heard I missed feeling how I felt Quito Jack and I only made it about 11 days so my plan for this year actually my birthday just Halloween on it doses there's and this is another thing sorry four or five years ago and in ketosis it's kind of my priority with paleo grocery list kind of thing um there's treats out there that you cannot feel like you're missing out and Sam ketosis um there's a ton of fat bond recipes which if you aren't filled with familiar with fat moms there's all kinds of nice tight bond book that I wrote yeah oh yeah because the book is awesome take care of that fun oh that's right yeah okay so um and manufacturers are starting to pop up with different keto items they're answering a demand right so you've seen a keto bars out there you see keto cookies out there now there's even quest quito from quest nutrition those guys they jumped in full bore and i haven't seen that webpage that's amazing I think vivica has even got to try some of those so um there's ways to weather this storm there's great recipes out there there's manufacturers answering that demand um and and you you can be very successful doing it now um do I i dial it in sometimes if i'm getting ready for something performance if i have a competition coming up whether it's crossfitter powerlifting i go a 100-percent keto paleo mm-hmm the reason being is that I know that I am giving my body the best fuel that it can because i'm going to ask for best performance that i can get um Santana necks usually at least a 12-week ramp up for anything performance wise other than that I do stay in nutritional ketosis almost i'm going to say at least 50 weeks a year which i know is rare a lot of people like the cyclical ketogenic diets and the target of quito dies but from a performance standpoint i just noticed way way better performance by by saying in total but i don't better answer that question nah let me ask you um how's your experience with that and women like and you say your training partner is a woman how our experience with that is she staying in ketosis the whole time and has affected her what's her results her results on performance are phenomenal um if you guys want to google Darryl and daddy and maybe we can put her in the show notes her name yes um she's a competitive power lifter she doesn't do I mean she she owns the CrossFit gym with me mm-hmm her competition platforms powerlifting and she lives in what they call she's drug-free power lifter too okay she's 26 years old now and she competes powerlifting in the equip division and this woman has slaughtered over 500 pounds in ketosis without carbs so she has had excellent results of it and she is even done some experimenting with the internet fasi mm-hmm and by intermittent fasting I don't mean skipping breakfast I mean she's literally skipped a week and got stronger or and personal records in that time she has had really really good success with it now again depends on your goals what are your goals your goals are and want to lower my overall systemic inflammation I want to better I want you know it's different just health results there's a different way to go about it ah you're looking for lean mass you're trying to lean out you know there's different ways to do different things with this time there's different branches evolving absolutely yeah and I think that's really important and it's actually like you almost ride my mind because I was just thinking about that exactly and I wanted to make another little side note here about the way that I like for example I do kita paleo and I know that we're kind of doing the same thing for different branches of the diet because my audience is very different like I work mostly with women and i would say eighty percent of my clients is over 40 so they're much more fitting my profile because I'm a woman and I'm over 40 you know and so I adapt a diet for our needs my needs and the needs of my clients and you know um I just want to make it clear for everybody that kita paleo is a tool and it's a wonderful amazing tool that is the therapeutic diet and can bring you these amazing results both for what I do and for what Jamie does so we are in two completely different worlds you know you deal deal with like you know maybe twenty-something powerlifters men and women and I deal with 40-something housewives or you know busy moms and they're like endocrine profile and just general health profile is extremely different but the beauty of it is that even though we might need to kind of modify the key to pillow you know how do you say general diet for specifically the results we want there is still this amazing tool that we are using and is given both of us great results with what we do and that's why I think both Jamie and I were passionate about it you know and I've been doing keto paleo for now two and a half three about three years I keep losing track of time but you know and I was strict keto for a year and a half and then I realized that you know I just kind of fell off the wagon and started eating more pain yaadon ki toh so going up in carbs and almost serendipitously I realized that that took me to the next level I didn't even plan on doing it it just happened you know as I had life changes and things and I couldn't be strictly to I couldn't be monitoring ketones and blood sugars all the time like I used to do and I raised my carbs and then I saw that I lost more weight I got leaner my hormones got happier you know they got more stable I was having I come from you know having thyroid issues Asha motos adrenal fatigue you name it sex hormones all over the place perimenopause you know ms and doing keto paleo really took me to a certain point and then when I reached the kind of plateau and started doing more carbs after being heated opted for more than a year you know that helped me go further and now I know that sweet spot that works for me with my you know health profile and that you know it's like that sweet spot for me is going between ketosis and out of ketosis kind of fluctuating and doing some sort of like you know strict lock arms through ketosis and then more into the low carb side and that works it works really well no such a lot of advantages that I I think that I was very successful on standard paleo and I took it to the next level for performance but I've also seen me people be very successful in ketosis and reverse a lot of metabolic issues that they had taken diabetes being one of them it doesn't necessarily mean that that person Hasse's stay there for the rest of their life you can use the ketosis part of it as a reset button and then keep you know like what the natural human diet after that just makes sense and you can be very successful I feel oh you know it's a great tool because unfortunately a standard American diet that we've been fed for decades now is very very very high card and metabolically damaged and sometimes some people can get away with Sandra paleo and then sometimes some people need almost like a reset they need to to read reset everything and sometimes going into ketosis for six months may really let all that systemic inflammation come down what insolence levels come down so that beta cell receptors can refine themselves and everything can just get a break and then you can proceed with a healthy natural human diet it's not as the word for pillow and and move forward from there and be very happy and healthy and you've learned a lot about your body there's a lot of toxic environment out there that you're just used to because that's how we came into it yeah I love that you say that because you know and I interviewed dr. Jensen Fung and we talked about insulin resistance a lot because that's a really you know very pertinent topic that you know combines with why doing keto paleo and you know again you hit the nail on the head with that that big reset button where I really believe that that is the perfect tool to push the big reset button because it's a clean diet you know it helps you get rid of toxins but also metabolically it really resets the insulin resistance and people ask me all the time my patients ask me all the time like how long how long before my blood sugar is normal long for my metabolism kicks back up and I was like well it really depends on the individual but it might take six months to a year nah you know they want to do it in six weeks like my program is 11 weeks and at the end of the program they're like this is it not happened yet and like yeah you are like 47 he took your whole lifetime to get here it's not going to happen in 11 weeks that's like that's a really good point you know it's science and art form like like vivica said I have clients and and we made this comment before we got online I find unfortunately or fortunately it's really men are really successful quick I don't have to tune I don't have to fine-tune anything with them and I can hand them a grocery list and say go forth and they'll come in three you know a month later 30 pounds lighter right women are almost always a moving target for me not to say that I can't be successful but it's almost always a moving target that's out here with a cookie cutter approach but we're probably gonna have to dial stop in for you be ready for that and like you said you know 47 years of this lifestyle and I want to reverse it in six weeks sorry it happened they got happen knowing you know that's something that I want our listeners to be very clear about is that like we talked about it at the beginning little steps and be patient with yourself and don't forget as a woman that a woman's endocrine picture you know the endocrine system of a woman it's so much more complicated unfortunately you know there is all you know sex hormones are way more complicated it's like you know imagine playing a game with two people and playing a game with 20 people you know the level of complexity ages is much higher so you know that's something that it just physiologically true that we need to deal with more elements so for a man and you know it sincere eclectic and urban arch psychology I just do physiology women are a bit more complicated and you know well as well but yeah we really need to be present to that and and be patient with obtaining the results because I know like you are a testament to that and I am as well that it's very possible to get results at any level like you know man or woman any age and you know also I really want to share this message of hope for people that come from a sad diet and a lifetime of a sad diet and you know unfortunately been you know really victim of a very sick health care system and you know coming with all sorts of things done to them that were not helpful for regaining their help but when you start you know and you start with the most powerful tool which is changing your diet and then your lifestyle there is hope for a lot of healing you know and I think Jamie that your experience really shares that point of view right yeah i agree i mean the body is an amazing thing and given the right tools it will heal itself almost ninety nine percent of the time but i think it's very very responsible for us to recognize that there's potentially a lot of damage going on that we are just used to one of the very first articles I wrote was called finding the line and the point of that article was with all the marketing and all the big manufacturing companies out there everyone thinks they're doing a pretty good job of the way they eat in the way to go because of the way the TV is programmed us but the reality is is that we're nowhere near the line is about 10 feet over to the left and we're thinking we're walking on it and it's not all funny it's our fault but it's not our fault there's a lot there's billions of dollars put it in the marketing on this stuff and and there's a lot of influence being put at all different levels it is our responsibility though to try and do the best we can I feel and try and find the truth and fortunately for us if you have podcasts like this and we had a video casting and there's some good books out there so you know your body you have to like I've been saying you have to eat like you care about yourself it's the only one you have if you're into any of this if you walk away paleo if you walk away keto or if you walk away key dope a real and you've learned something today that's the one thing that I can tell everybody is eat like you care about yourself and that shines so much light on before you put something in your mouth I can't stress enough everything like that Jamie you mentioned books and I've been really wanting to ask you about this wonderful book that we're all waiting for in your life working really hard and I know it's a lot of really hard work fight can you tell us a little bit about it like what is the book book I'm gonna be like you know give us a little preview so we can be excited waiting for it while it is it's going to share my story in the beginning I think that adds a lot of relatability to it so that you know that I have not always just been that skinny athlete type type of guy um it's gonna really give a nice explanation of what kido I'm sorry what paleo or a natural human diet looks like and for those of you who keep getting confused with that term keto paleo the way I like to define it is is paleo is a grocery list of foods that we ate while we evolved as this sheet ok keto is a way to adjust your macros and if you don't know what macros are those are carbohydrate protein and fats so let it put your body in the state of nutritional ketosis those are two things that can be put brought together for what feel is an optimal health diet or recovery diet and we're going to in the book is going to include a real good paleo outline for you a real good ketogenic outline for you and how I married the two together and why and I'm trying to put some science in it but not enough to bog down a wood chipper even though I'd like to UM like I mentioned before my keys is kind of my science hero and I tend to try and write like him but then I have to reel it back in and that's what I really hope to help people with is it's not necessarily a performance book it's not necessarily a diet book but it's more of an optimal health book and to teach people to eat like they care about themselves so that's wonderful well I can't wait for the book to be out and I can't wait to share it with my readers and audience because I think that our philosophies are very much aligned and by the way I cannot I don't like writing and I don't like writing science and more like you know the practical hands-on recipes and stuff so I would love to just share your book for all the stuff that I don't like to talk about I love the science part of it I had find myself when i get my seminars and really have to reel it in um otherwise I'll get the snus crews out there that's great and let's talk before we wrap this up that's not quickly about this wonderful tool that you already have out and that you're sharing with people and I needs ready to jump on and start using you have a nap can you tell me about it yeah definitely thanks um keto check this this was designed it's an app it's on Apple and Android this is design kino check was designed to help and encourage people who were interested in the ketogenic diet to start looking at labels I noticed a big interest or a big arm void if you will I was low carb crews a couple years ago and we were all talking very um as if everybody knew what a fat was what a carbohydrate was what a fiber was what a sugar was what a sugar alcohol was and a protein but there was there was a large group of people on the it's a seminar that were really unaware that there was even a nutrition label on stuff so I developed keto check for that group in mind the severe beginner to to turn over a label or something recognize that there's protein fats carbohydrates on on this thing and what keto check lets you do is let you type those individual things in and that was on purpose and then give you a quick pie chart with some percentages to show you this percentage of this food is seventy percent fat twenty-five percent protein and maybe five percent of carbohydrate or completely flipped it gives you a conscious feel of what foods are at a macro level um and it's it's really doing well for the beginners I know one of the reasons I put it together was my aunt was looking at ketogenic diets because she had been diagnosed with breast cancer and didn't know that from a carbohydrate from a protein let alone where the nutrition label was so stuff like that is what motivated me to do it now there's a second version coming out for our more advanced users like us that is more of a food log and you could build a plane please look at your plate you could type in six ounces of chicken two tablespoons of olive oil 1 cup of broccoli click and then it would calculate your total caloric value at a you know and give you a that pie chart to see where yet then you can walk you know as a very generic vm are in there which is basal metabolism to help you for those trying to do the weight loss thing that's gonna be key dokes a 2 point 0 which is maybe two months away excited about that as being a more robust tool but thank you back one point for you newbies they're trying to understand what a kiddo you know mr. that looks like great to offer you dinner after great thank you so much I i will link it in the post like on you know with the video that I'm just going to come with this interview and also I for all you listeners of course you will find links to Jamie's website is social media Facebook you know will track you down Jamie so that you know people can maybe work with you or you know I feel like there are a lot of people to come to me and they're not really my perfect audience because you know we talked about a different audiences so I love this interview been able to like the rectum to use so they can find the right answers for themselves wonderful this is great thank you so much Jamie I think this was really a wonderful interview and of course you know i love seeing eye to eye with either key to failure people so it makes it for a nice little discussion I can't thank you enough for having me this is wonderful yes and please check out Jamie and I'll you know his wonderful resources and thank you again we'll talk soon Dinah .
Video Description:
Interview with Jamie Caporosso, and expert of the Keto Paleo diet and lifestyle for health and performance, sharing his health journey and upcoming book.
Read more here: http://thenourishedcaveman.com/interview-with-jamie-caporosso-on-keto-paleo/
